The Angry Future Expat

A Study In Douchebaggery: Dean Thomas Mengler Edition

Posted in debt by angryfutureexpat on April 13, 2010

With a tip of the hat to Nando over at third tier reality, we have someone who may give David Brooks a run for his money in the category of World’s Biggest Douchebag.  Yessiree Bob, Dean Thomas Mengler of the St. Thomas University School of Law, you are a true triple threat: clueless, an apologist for the rich, and an insensitive dick.  Way to go, buddy!  That’s pretty fucking impressive, and puts you in truly elite company.

Check out this asshole pontificating about the virtues of the free market separating the wheat from the chaff in the legal market:

A portion transcribed over at TTR, but watch the whole thing:

Not every lawyer in America, or not every lawyer in Minnesota, should be practicing law. And some of them are getting forced out. And they probably should be, for the same reason that the coffee shop down the street may not be – maybe there are too many coffee shops in that four-block area. And we don’t lose a lot of sleep over the concept that businesses come and go, because the market economy plays it out as it should be.

And, yet, St. Thomas promotes itself and the debt its grad need to take on quite differently:

Money Quote from Mengler: I still think that’s a pretty good deal. If you ask yourself, ‘Are you prepared to invest $75,000 or $80,000 in a career that might extend for 40 or 50 years.

First of all, the cost of attendance at St. Thomas School of Law is not 75-80k, that’s just “average” debt, the real cost is close to twice that, but more importantly, as I stroll through the information advertising on its website, I find nary a peep suggesting that “some people shouldn’t be lawyers.”

Now, anything I can do to help pollute the Google stream for this douche and his “school” is an unequivocal positive, but that’s not the reason, I decided to write this post, oh no.  This reminded me of a letter I saw a while back from huge prick Jon Kyl (yeah, that Jon Kyl) of Arizona to a struggling attorney advocating for the dischargability of student loans in bankruptcy.

But the forgiveness of debt or the discharge of such debt in bankruptcy hurts someone else – the lender.  I know you don’t intend that, but it is the inevitable result of discharge.

****

Aspiring lawyers are usually willing to take on such debt because they know their law school education will enhance their earning potential for the rest of their working lives.  Indeed, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual earnings of all wage – and salaried – lawyers amounted to just over $102,000 in 2006.

Let’s first discuss Kyl’s rhetorical trick – it’s similar to Mengler’s – he goes from “law school education” in the first sentence to “wage – and salaried – lawyers” in the second sentence, but as many of the good people in the disgruntled lawyers category of this fine blog can and will attest A ≠ B.  More importantly, and this really gets to the core problem, is that people coming out of graduate school are not given any opportunity to fail.  Let’s stick with law school grads – if you’re not suited for the practice of law, or you can’t develop clients, or you simply aren’t able to find a job at a living wage, you are fucked for life.

That is the basic reason that relying on statistical averages or medians is the completely meaningless rhetorical device of a douchebag.  But what we see is that law school marketing is based on average salaries, and public policy decisions being based on medians, when such numbers do nothing to clarify reality, they simply obscure the grinding disaster of tens of millions – maybe more.  It is sophistry of the highest (or perhaps more accurately, lowest) form.

But failure, a clean slate, and moving onto something else is not a realistic option for huge numbers because they are saddled with massive, nondischaragable debt.  For example, you can’t build capital to start a business or move into some other line of work because Aunt Sallie and her bill collectors will take any money that you manage to put away.  The debt handicaps your ability to seek your comparative advantage – which should be the fundamental goal of any well-functioning economy – and the economy turns into a stagnant cesspool, banana republic style.  It’s like a compulsive gambler in hock to a loan shark – either you win big, or the mafia drags you out into the desert and puts a bullet in your head.  Want an analogy for the higher education complex in the United States – there it is.

The old saw says that there are “Lies, damned lies, and statistics,” but sometimes when you’re dealing with politicians and law school deans, you’re lucky enough to find all three.

Oh, and Dean Thomas Mengler, go fuck yourself, you slack-jawed piece of shit.

14 Responses

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  1. Chris Wheaton said, on April 16, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Oh great. Another coward pontificating nonsense while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

    • angryfutureexpat said, on April 16, 2010 at 2:04 pm

      Dispute the following facts:

      1. St. Thomas does not cost 75-80k;
      2. That “average” debt load lasts forever, and greatly inhibits the exact labor market mobility that your douche dean praises in the first video.

      I trust that I don’t need to explain to an attorney the first amendment values furthered by anonymous speech.

  2. Nando said, on April 16, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Chris Wheaton, is sucking up to the industry while proudly displaying your name a sign of courage? Attorneys do not want to be fired or blackballed, merely for expressing their views on the billion-dollar law school industry. Seriously, the school is a low-ranked diploma mill. So, you “made it” – how many of your fellow TTT grads can say the same? How much money did daddy lend you for start-up costs? How much business did daddy drum up for you?

    AngryFutureExPat, thank you for putting your imprimatur on this dump.

  3. Chris Wheaton said, on April 16, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Anonymous #1:
    1. The MSRP price is ~$75-80K. No one pays that at St. Thomas because of generous scholarships from the university alumni and their endowment.
    2. I have no idea what the average debt load is or how long it takes those who acquire it to pay it off. As those are personal decisions considered upon entering law school, I find it amazing that you continue to lay that at the feet of the school. No doubt one could choose not to attend or to say work for the money to pay for school prior to entering. i will tell you that I worked for 15 years prior to attendance and saved enough to put me in decent financial shape and will in no way be paying for my loans longer than 5 years after graduating.
    3. Free speech is a right you have when speaking about the government. There is no value in hiding behind anonymity in civilized debate. Good try though – you’re showing initiative.

    Anonymous Nando:
    I put my name to my comments because I have nothing to hide. I have no anger, bitterness, hard-feelings toward anyone. Not sure how you could call it a diploma mill when it has minted less than 1,000 lawyers since being re-established.

    Regarding my education – completely paid for by myself. I am a 40 year old husband and father and neither of my parents have helped me with anything upon becoming 18. I paid for high-school, college and law school without the help of anyone. Daddy drove a beer delivery truck and mom was a city payroll clerk. Neither helped me with school or with “drumming up” business. I have worked for what I have both personally and professionally.

    Regarding my fellow classmates – they have the same opportunities that I have had. I didn’t control their decision to go to law school, I didn’t hand hold them during the application process, I didn’t force them to choose St. Thomas over another school. Those are all personal decisions made by each individual. Again, law school isn’t some bait and switch scam, it’s an education. I took full advantage of mine as others have and are able to find jobs in the legal field though hard work and determination to work as an attorney.

    • angryfutureexpat said, on April 16, 2010 at 5:06 pm

      Chris,

      1. As rigorously documented by Nando, the sticker price at St. Thomas is 36k/yr * 3 = 108k. But with school estimates for living expenses it hits 162k over three years. I suspect that when you say nobody pays full freight at St. Thomas, you mean it in the same way people who say “Nobody rides public transportation in Los Angeles,” i.e. you mean “I didn’t and my friends didn’t” and, more importantly, that you’re completely and totally wrong

      2. I know what the “average” debt load of a law school graduate is! It’s right around 80k. And that’s the average, so full riders, rich parents, and those with other money bring that down. Funny how that was the exact number cited by Dean Mengler, yup, that sure is ironic.

      3. I have some concern about your understanding of the First Amendment. I’m not a lawyer, and even I know the following:

      - In Mcintyre the Supreme Court noted that anonymous speech is protected and does further the values of the First Amendment;

      - Defamation laws require a very high standard of proof when dealing with public figures, particularly if related to issues of public concern because of the values and requirements of the First Amendment;

      - I am clearly stating that Dean Thomas Mengler is a douche because I am criticizing his positions regarding the higher education/student loan industry. This is an issue of considerable public concern as there is more than 700 billion in student loan debt outstanding, with a huge percentage of it guaranteed by the government. I am not criticizing Dean Thomas Mengler based on issues about which he has not publicly opined – for example, if I were to state that Dean Thomas Mengler were a syphilitic pedophile, that would clearly be a statement of a personal nature, rather than commentary on issues of public concern into which he has voluntarily injected his views. And as such, it would be a statement that would (likely) stand outside the protections of the First Amendment. That is why I have not made any such assertion – I have no basis for it one way or the other. It’s an extremely important difference.

      To sum up, Anonymous speech criticizing public person on issue of public concern = furthering the values of the First Amendment. QED

      With respect to your personal story, congratulations and I hope your firm is a success. But take it from a former small business owner, things can turn bad in a hurry.

      In any event, good luck to you.

    • Anonymous said, on April 16, 2010 at 7:49 pm

      Chris – being a non-traditional student you probably aren’t the target audience that Nando & Co. are trying to impact. What % of students entering UST are non-traditional students?

  4. Anonymous said, on April 16, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Chris – being a non-traditional student I don’t think you are the target audience Nando & Co. is trying to impact. What % of non-traditional students attend UST?

  5. TTThoma$ Mengler said, on April 17, 2010 at 1:04 am

    Not every lawyer in the state of Minnesota is cut out for this line of work. It is a calling, really. All we do is train law students to think like lawyers. It is up to the firms and govt agencies to train our grads to be lawyers. (If our JDs are unable to land an attorney job, we also cannot be held responsible, per the limitations of our job.)

    That being said, we are happy to take in as many students as we possibly can. We are even giong to start accpeting minorities (and others of disadvantaged backgrounds) who have not taken the culiturally-biased LSAT. isn;t that what Jesus would do?

    Also, to anyone still on the fence, make sure to make your seat deposits before the deadline!! We want to open the doors of this wonderful profession to you. (Once you are out of school, however…)

  6. Anon said, on April 18, 2010 at 5:04 am

    Chris Wheaties is a member of the St. TTThomas Alumni Board…do we need to say anything more?

  7. Chris Wheaton said, on April 18, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    I am a member of the Alumni Board. I perform that roll because I believe in the school of law, it’s mission, the students and her alumni. I’m not hiding anything.

    As for non-trades, I’d bet about 1/3 of the students are non-trad.

  8. Nando said, on April 19, 2010 at 11:39 am

    What type of “roll” would that be, Chris? Also, you don’t use “it’s” to describe a place. I guess you believe in “its” mission, correct?

    And lastly, “her alumni’?! Are we talking about a nation or a head of state, i.e. (the shriveled up prune known as the Queen of England?

    Actually, one more: what is a non-trade? Is that a trade does not occur?

    Look, people. The school put a person who cannot spell on its Alumni Board. Need I say anything more? This man also relies heavily on platitudes to make the case that the toilet of law is a good investment. (It is, but ONLY for the “professors” and administrators.)

  9. Mpls Law Student said, on May 27, 2010 at 8:33 am

    How does Dean TTThomas Mengele sleep at night? On a pile of his students’ tuition money and broken dreams! Watch out for this law school, you will end up with your finances twisted and broken forever by Thomas “The Mangler” Mengler.

  10. James Gould said, on November 23, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    I am a 3rd year law student at UST. I was very grateful to receive a full tuition scholarship, otherwise I could not have attended. I am 57 years old and don’t have much time to make up for 3 years of lost wages as it is. I happen to like Dean Mengler. The negative comments on here about him are simply inaccurate. It is unfortunate that several people on this spool seem so angry. I would advise them to channel that energy into something constructive because the Dean will not be hurt by your comments.

    Here is an old saw for you expat: “Strong language many times indicates a weak character”. You might want to think about that before you hurl abuse at someone you do not even know.

    I hope you are young – don’t waste it being angry at others for your problems – believe me I know because I did and I would give anything to have my youth back. Good luck to you.

    • angryfutureexpat said, on November 25, 2011 at 2:24 pm

      Sure thing James. I’m pretty much out of the blogging game, but I have a quote for you too: “words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking.”

      Good luck to you. I suspect you will need it, but would be delighted to be wrong.


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